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polifemo
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 13
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 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: Melodic lines/chords |
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Hi
I have quite recently discovered Brett’s playing, (I like it A LOT!!!) and as I do not have any of his CDs (YET!) I haven’t been able to listen to him that much.
On his website there are some Tabs and having had a look at them I have the following thoughts:
- It is a shame that the chords aren’t included (here I have to inform you that I’m referring to the PDF files, as I can’t use the power tabs due to the fact that this program doesn’t exist for MAC) as a melodic line doesn’t say that much without the chord it is played over.
Here is an example:
If I see an “A minor pentatonic line” it could be a/an:
1. minor pentatonic lick over an A minor chord.
2. major pentatonic lick over an C major chord.
3. blues lick over an A dominant 7 chord.
4. nice little thing over Fmaj7
5. really nice lydian phrase over Bbmaj7
6. cool open sounding fusion trick over D11
7. jazz thang over F#-altered
8. tritone jazz thang over Eb-altered
etc etc etc…
With many players the application would be obvious, but speaking of a player of Bretts skill it could be anything!!!
I NEVER learn solos and I hardly ever even copy licks, but I DO analyse peoples note choices for concepts of playing etc.
So if anyone out there does transcriptions, please include the chords!!!
ps the transcription pdf´s look really wierd, so maybe there are chords somewhere... computer problem I suppose... ds |
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Big Kev
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 404
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Hi Polifemo,
I've touched on this in other threads, but basically the transcriptions on the website have all been donated by fans. They're not professional transcriptions, nor are they guaranteed for accuracy. Transcribing is difficult and laborious work, and including chords can exacerbate this, especially if you haven't got a good ear for harmony. I'd say most people would rather no chords than the wrong chords. All I can say is that if anybody out there has the time, patience and diligence to do full transcriptions with chord charts, and is happy to then give them away, I'm more than happy to post them on the website.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say the PDFs "look really wierd", but they've been generated directly from the Powertab originals on a PC. The results are certainly not perfect, but unfortunately they're as good as I can get them. (If you're on a Mac you'd be used to seeing much better-looking and more accurate PDFs, as the OS X Quartz compositing engine that draws everything you see on screen basically renders everything to PDF anyway.)
Kev |
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polifemo
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Kev wrote: | Hi Polifemo,
I'm not sure what you mean when you say the PDFs "look really wierd", but they've been generated directly from the Powertab originals on a PC. The results are certainly not perfect, but unfortunately they're as good as I can get them. (If you're on a Mac you'd be used to seeing much better-looking and more accurate PDFs, as the OS X Quartz compositing engine that draws everything you see on screen basically renders everything to PDF anyway.)
Kev |
Hi
They look like this:
I must be missing a font or something... |
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Big Kev
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 404
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Er, yeah, I know what they look like  . I was really just prompting you to be more specific about the problems you're noticing. Anyway, if you're refering to what look like oversized picking notation marks, then no, you're not missing a font, it's just the way that Acrobat rendered them on a PC (see my note in the last post). In most cases fonts are embedded in PDF documents, so it's most likely a mistranslation of glyphs between Powertab and Acrobat.
Kev |
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polifemo
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Big Kev wrote: | Er, yeah, I know what they look like . I was really just prompting you to be more specific about the problems you're noticing. Anyway, if you're refering to what look like oversized picking notation marks, then no, you're not missing a font, it's just the way that Acrobat rendered them on a PC (see my note in the last post). In most cases fonts are embedded in PDF documents, so it's most likely a mistranslation of glyphs between Powertab and Acrobat.
Kev |
Hi again.
They look really strange, but it´s still possible to read them!
Thanks for your replys and your work on Bretts site.
/Peter |
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Big Kev
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 404
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They look really strange, but it´s still possible to read them! |
Yes, you're right on both counts. I guess "mistranslation of glyphs" isn't necessarily the most straightforward explanation; what I really mean is that when Acrobat converted the Powertab files to PDF, it didn't handle the conversion of those particular characters very well. I'm afraid there's probably not much I can do about it, unfortunately. (Though I may sneak off and see if doing them over using Acrobat 6 or 7 makes any difference.)
| Quote: | | Thanks for your replys and your work on Bretts site. |
Hey, my pleasure!
Kev |
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polifemo
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Melodic lines/chords |
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| polifemo wrote: |
Here is an example:
If I see an “A minor pentatonic line” it could be a/an:
1. minor pentatonic lick over an A minor chord.
2. major pentatonic lick over an C major chord.
3. blues lick over an A dominant 7 chord.
4. nice little thing over Fmaj7
5. really nice lydian phrase over Bbmaj7
6. cool open sounding fusion trick over D11
7. jazz thang over F#-altered
8. tritone jazz thang over Eb-altered
etc etc etc…
With many players the application would be obvious, but speaking of a player of Bretts skill it could be anything!!!
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As I´ve notice that Brett himself sometimes takes the time to reply to certain posts (!) I cant help but to do the following:
Hi Brett, as you can see I´m stressing the importance of including chords in transcriptions of solos and as an example of this I stated a few possible applications for an "A minor pentatonic lick".
I also had the nerve to state that you - in your style of playing - might use this "A minor pentatonic lick" in the ways I described. (well maybe not the two last ones...)
It would be nice to have some feedback on my statement in order to get some insight in how you look upon improvisation!!
peaceout
/Peter |
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polifemo
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Kev wrote: |
(Though I may sneak off and see if doing them over using Acrobat 6 or 7 makes any difference.)
Hey, my pleasure!
Kev |
Hi again
What about scanning the powertabs and offering them as PDFs?
(It´s a pity if all Mac users end up with these "strange" Acrobat renderings of the Powertab files)
/Peter |
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Big Kev
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 404
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'll try to find some time to look at them all again and see if they can be improved.
Kev |
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bretto212
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| I regards to the Am pentatonic ideas I'd use almost all of them except I tend to use the altered scale over altered chords. I can see where you're coming from with Am pent over the F# and Eb. I'd also use Gm pent. over the Eb altered although seeing as I come from a more melodic rock background I do prefer to use diatonic scales. I find it difficult to make outside playing sound good. Scott Henderson is unblievable at this. |
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polifemo
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| bretto212 wrote: | | I regards to the Am pentatonic ideas I'd use almost all of them except I tend to use the altered scale over altered chords. I can see where you're coming from with Am pent over the F# and Eb. I'd also use Gm pent. over the Eb altered although seeing as I come from a more melodic rock background I do prefer to use diatonic scales. I find it difficult to make outside playing sound good. Scott Henderson is unblievable at this. |
Hi
Thanks for you reply!
I agree that it´s difficult to make outside playing sound good, and that Scott really is the master of this.
It´s interesting though to use pentatonic/blues ideas to create altered sounds. (Using a minor pentatonic scale 1/2 step above an altered dominant chord can - when done "correctly" - sound really cool!)
As I´ve said before I really like your playing and I do hope that the DVD + CD I ordered will reach me soon.
all the best
Peter |
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Big Kev
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 404
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It´s interesting though to use pentatonic/blues ideas to create altered sounds. |
Many people fail to realise how fundamental the pentatonic scales are to most jazz soloing. Using simple pentatonic and diatonic scales out of context is also one of the simplest ways to "jazz up" your sound, especially for more rock-oriented players (and provided you use your ears!).
I learned quite early on in my jazz studies that (true) jazz and (true) rock players think differently, and that I definitely think like a rock player. Which is why I still can't play jazz. Rock players tend to think diatonically, which enhances melodicism and musical relevance, but can limit you to stock sounds. Jazz players tend to think more about tone centres, and the possible combinations of harmony that work with them. For most jazz players, thinking diatonically is actually an impediment to becoming fully immersed in the jazz idiom.
| Quote: | | I do hope that the DVD + CD I ordered will reach me soon. |
Just be aware that Brett actually receives, processes and ships most orders personally, and he's normally pretty quick. This can take a bit longer though when he's on tour (which he is at the moment with John Farnham), so don't panic if it seems a little too long in coming. It'll be worth the wait  . |
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jazzism
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| polifemo wrote: |
(Using a minor pentatonic scale 1/2 step above an altered dominant chord can - when done "correctly" - sound really cool!) |
Yes you really would have to handle this ah, "correctly" as the minor pent 1 b3 4 5 b7 a half step above gives you a major seventh on a dominant 7th chord, not recommended to be used on your next wedding function gig ( LOL)
cheers |
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JJW
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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more rock players these days play modaly,but still have that diatonic ear
great theory mentioned above,there is a lot of food for thought here |
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Big Kev
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 404
Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | more rock players these days play modaly,but still have that diatonic ear |
I've always considered modal playing to be an extension of standard diatonic forms - after all, they're known as the diatonic modes! (But I do get your point JJW.) It's when you start breaking the strict relationship between harmonic key centre and the scale or note collection you're using that things become "non-diatonic". Soloing in F lydian over an F-Major vamp doesn't really qualify in my book.
Kev |
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