Jimmy Herring Discussion

[ARUjeff]

i really would like to know what scales jimmy uses to do those out of the box lightning fast runs of his(ie devil likes it slow, from Gov't Mule - live with a little help from our friends)

[smv929]

I don't think he thinks in terms of scales. He has such an good intellect for music and must have a great memory (probably good at math!), that his ability to play long lines sounds awesome when coupled with his monster chops. In fact, I think that if you just have the chops and memory or time to woodshed a long line, you can make about any "out-there" line sound cool as long as you begin and end it on the right notes and play it tastefully in the right context.

If you get a clue as to a pattern on what he's doing, please post it. All I now is that he includes a lot of pass tones and often times plays the wide-interval licks. Those wide-interval thigns he does real fast sound great. I'll try to copy about 10 seconds and it will take me forever just to memorize and try to figure out his fingering...let alone trying to get it up to tempo. I usually give up and try my own simplified version. If I'm lucky, I'll come away with something I can apply.

[kirk95]

I believe those fast wide interval thangs are sweeps on triads!

[ARUjeff]

i do know that jimmy uses alot of passing chromatic tones that are from the harmonic minor scale or melodic minor scale....but ive been told most of his out of the box solos are only pentatonic scales half a step up usually ending on the root 3rd or 5th so the solo does sound tasteful....me i like sticking with certain areas and resolving....like wayne krantz in a way...he stays in the same area but changes the scale or arpeggio hes running thru

[smv929]

ARUJeff, you are correct about Jimmy doing the pentatonic scales up a half step. Also, as mentioned in that Guitar Player article that discussed his style, he often does the pentatonice thing that goes up a minor 3rd, up another minor 3rd, up again and again until resolving to the root. I think you can do just about anything if you have the chops and then end back in the root key like Jimmy does. That's definitely his little signature.

[jaystraw]

You are all correct and win the Jimmy Herring Ear For Music Award!

ARUJeff, smv929 and of course our board admin kirk all have free copies of The Dead 07/30/04 (setlsit below) if you would like it. Please email me at

jaystraw11@yahoo.com

with your address!

July 30, 2004
Tweeter Center
Mansfield (Boston), MA

Set 1:
Help On The Way>
Slipknot!> Franklin's Tower>
Truckin'> Love Supreme Jam>
Me & Bobby McGee
Strange World>
The Wheel> @Candyman
Just A Little Light
U.S. Blues

Set 2:
Lady With A Fan>
Terrapin Station> St. Stephen>
High Green Chilly Winds>
The Eleven>
Scarlet Begonias>
Fire On The Mountain>
Drumz/Space>
Mountains Of The Moon
China Cat Sunflower>
I Know You Rider

E: @#Ripple

#Phil-no bass, Warren-slide
@Bobby acoustic
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South Panic

[ARUjeff]

much obliged!

[Brett Lanier]

Hey, I recently checked out Jimmy's lesson where he talks about playing pentatonic and then sliding up a half step and then back down in the middle of a line. I noticed that this isn't very different from a technique that I like to use when playing dorian/pentatonic. If I'm playing A minor I'll pull either an arpeggio or a bit of the scale from the tritone of the 5 chord, which is Bb mixolydian. The sound you get is very similair to what Jimmy does. It's easy to think Dominant up a half step from the minor, but if you want to get a little more technical with it you can think about E super locrian(altered scale).

[wave]

Hi guys.

"long time listener first time poster"

How and how long did it take you to learn all that?

I've been practicing pentatonic scales the last few months getting used to the 5 positions or paterns. Do the scales you refer to use the same fingering?


Brett

It the tritone of the fifth the 3 notes that makeup the fifth chord?


Any help advice anyone can offer is appreciated.


Thanks
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[ARUjeff]

hey...i come from more of a jazz background, but i use pentatonic to resolve most of my solos....i tend to use the halfstep up and down method with dorian mode, because i have more note choice

[Brett Lanier]

Hey wave, We're playing Amin right? The fifth is E7. You know when a bass player does a pedal note for a bunch of bars on the fifth(E)? Well it kind of lifts or elevates the tune when you're doing a one chord jam. So, as a soloist it's of course really fun to try and get that same effect and to have the ability to weave in and out of it. But if we just play the notes that belong to the 5 chord, than it doesn't sound all that much different because the notes that are traditionally played on E7, are the same as Amin. So we go altered with it. We are still playing off the 5 chord, but some of the notes are different. They are tensions that exist past the octave. The scale goes like this. 1(E),b9(F),#9(G),3(Ab),#11(Bb),b13(C),and b7(D).

Now that's kind of a wierd scale. It belongs to melodic minor. So if you don't have melodic minor down cold all over the neck then I would advise that you think about playing Bb7/Bb mixolydian. The notes are the same as are in that altered(or super locrian) scale that I spelt out, except that there is an Eb instead of an E(not such a big deal). Just a reminder here that the band is always groovin on Amin.

The reason that I like to do it this way is that I get very frustrated when limited to a certain direction of moving my hand. It is harder for me do bust into this sound thinking about pentatonics. But pentatonics are also very very cool because when you use pentatonics you get those african roots tribal sounding intervals.

I hope I didn't write too much. If you want to get into more detail about a certain sentence I wrote then just ask.

[wave]

Thanks for the info Brett

I started playing again after 20 years a year ago.

I play a lot in a-min and noodle up down in the scale. I've stumbled into a few songs noodling in a-min. I 've been practicing the positions and learning where the bends are. I have a book 100 Tips for Blues Guitar that I've been using to practice the pentatonics.

I'd like to get some more books after Christmas. Do you have any recomendations for books that will help me develop musically and as a player.

I am getting together with some friends to play tonight. I learn something every time we play.

Thank you again for you help.
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[Brett Lanier]

hello again, I don't know about too many books specifically that are better than any others. When I look at books at stores I tend to only buy one if I can imagine myself getting into it. You know, something I'll actually want to look at. I have a book called More Jazz Guitar Chords and Accompaniament by Yoichi Arakawa and it's ok. It just shows you how to do all the different inversions of seventh chords, with some stuff on superimposition. The Charie Parker Omnibook is good to have around too. When I was first learning a bunch of stuff about harmony I remember one specific thing that completely changed my playing forever. And that was when I started to see chords when while i was playing single note lines. Its kind of a simple and obvious thing but it helps every part of your playing the more you think about it. If you are only thinking modes than you're gonna feel lost within yourself. Its all about finding shapes(not visual) and isolating and carrying out the sounds that represent them for as long as you wish. Thats my idea of harmony, and chords-scales-arpeggios, try to always see the chords within your scales, the arpeggios within your chords. It's really cool when that starts to happen. I like a guy like Bill Frisell, because he sees all that really well. And then, he applies it to the guitar specifically. Like you can hear him play chords with open notes so appropriately that it's very possible sometimes that that is the first time he has ever played that exact chord. I like it

[wave]

Thank you Brett

I appreciate the help.
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[Johnnycable]

I found a few lessons and insights close to some of Jimmys speedy interval runs on http://www.wholenote.com/
enjoy
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