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Where do i go from here?

 
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the .lo



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:55 pm    Post subject: Where do i go from here? Reply with quote

Hey everybody,

I'm basically stuck on playing modes. I can usually improvise pretty well, and can often spot which mode to play in many basic major, minor, 7th, dom 7th keys.
Usually the mode starts to sound stale after a little bit, and to me I feel like I need to be able to change with the charecteristic of the progression.
Often times I'll throw in little arpeggios on top of the chord changes, but that gets old really quick too.


Whats the next step? How do people come up with nice little melodic phrases while improvising that have a good resolve, and don't just sound like the typical linear scale run?



Thanks to anybody who replies.
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nickD



Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I wanted to commiserate with you, sounds like where I'm at. I find that playing along with different kinds of music than I usually do helps. Also the sometimes unpleasant task of practicing new things. There are so many sites on the net with lessons on jazz guitar playing, go check out a couple and just pick a lesson and work on whatever it is. Maybe a break from running leads over progressions is what you need, so you could work on comping skills, inversions, etc. A direct approach might be to work out lines note by note, using not only chromatic passing tones but non diatonic notes as part of a statement. I've been tring to work out lines that follow the chord changes and make the last note of each line resolve to the first note of the next line. Maybe start using melodic minor (and it's modes) instead or along with dorian, the mode so often used for minor jams. If you find something that helps let me know, I'm a'strugglin too.
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yingyang



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know how advanced you guys are with it, but I have always looked at the modes as scales with altered notes. Which is what they are, but it easy to get stuck in a scalular rut with them. It is always difficult to explain, but...

Am pentatonic. add a flat5 you have blues scale. add a #6( F#) and you have mixo. Then as you are playing Am pentatonic add those notes along with chromatic passing tones and you have some spice added to something you already know. Try playing F# into G before going to A or C. That would be very mixo and a hell of lot easier than exhausting yourself in one mode forever. I learned to grab a hold of this from Jeff Beck early recordings. This may be stuff you already know, but if not, I hope it helps.

Go back and look at some of the guys the influenced Jimmy and I am sure it will be a little easier to grasp. I have some powertab files I could send to give you some ideas. email me.
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ronquixote



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play less... Think less.... and lean on the bass and drums enough to keep it all flowing clear....
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guhster813



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Get out out of the box! Reply with quote

Try practicing getting out of the box. I would suggest getting a copy of Band-in-a-Box and setting sometime of funk genre and input the chords Am7 and D9. Something simple like that, and just practice getting out there. For example, the A minor pentatonic scale works great but will get boring so try get a half step out of the box pattern on every other beat. Just so we can visualize this, imagine being in your 5th position a minor pentatonic shape... Let's start with index finger on the 5th fret of the A string.. now play the next 4 notes in key starting with the 5th fret of the A string.. the notes would be D, E, G, A, all in that box pattern.. now is the interesting part.. you should end up with with your ring finger on the 7th fret of the D, scoot that finger up one half step so now you'r a half step out of key, let 4 notes, then pop back into the 5th position and play 4 notes, then back out etc. So your basically going from the A minor pentatonic to Bb minor pentatonic then A minor again back and forth. This should of course should be done quickly and make sure you don't hold on a note that is out of key.

Later on I'll post a new topic with an example.
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another fishin' musician



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The above is all good advice.

I'd suggest getting a copy of Scott Henderson's "Jazz Rock Improvisation" on DVD; he breaks a lot of tricks down by chord type. Also Steve Khan's book "Pentatonic Khancepts".

Also look into chord substitution. Experiment with occasionally playing triads & runs of a different chord than what you're playing over; i.e. a blues scale (or 7th chord triad) a 4th, flat 5th, or sharp 5th higher than a minor chord the band is playing....

Diminished!! I like whole-half over minor chords, half-whole over 7th chords.

Also skipping strings (or wide intervals); this can make any diatonic thing sound 'out there'.

Good luck!
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Swain



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 38
Location: N. Little Rock, AR.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great stuff, Guys!

Here's one that works pretty quick and easy:

Play a minor Pentatonic Scale, off of the b3rd. of any Dominant Chord.

EX: Over D9, play Fm Pentatonic.

This will give you a great "Outside" sound, over V, Altered V, and any other Dominant Chord.

Wink
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Swain



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 38
Location: N. Little Rock, AR.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another approach, is to use bigger Intervals. Maybe play 2 of your favorite "Scale Shapes". BUT, play every other string.

For example, play only the Low E, D, and B Strings, with one Scale Shape.
And play only the A, G, and High E Strings with the other Scale Shape.

String-Skipping Arpeggios are also great for this.


Check out Carl Verheyen's Instructional DVD and his Book/CD packages. Great ideas that will definately get you trying new things.
In fact, the Book/CD Package is even called "Improvising Without Scales". Just what you were looking for.

Happy Hunting!
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gsbe



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 65
Location: Lexington, VA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swain wrote:
Play a minor Pentatonic Scale, off of the b3rd. of any Dominant Chord.

EX: Over D9, play Fm Pentatonic.

This will give you a great "Outside" sound, over V, Altered V, and any other Dominant Chord.


This is a good example of how Jimmy might approach playing out. Jimmy, as with most musicians from the last few decades, is into pentatonics. He's also especially keen on the diminished scale, going so far as to simply move his fast riff up and down the neck in minor 3rds.

This combination of pentatonics and minor 3rds is basically what you're suggesting here. Why not give all the pentatonics a try on every minor thirds above or below the root of the dominant chord! 2 of the 3 possibilities will sound similar:

On a D9 chord, play:

F minor pentatonic (F, Ab, Bb, C, Eb - or in D that's the b3, b5, b6 and b9)
Ab minor pentatonic (Ab, B, Db, Eb, Gb - or in D that's the 3, b5, 6, and b9)
B minor pentatonic (B, D, E, F#, A or in D that's the 3, 5, 6, and 9)

As you can see, the 3rd one (based on B minor) will be the most "inside" which makes sense as this is the one we're all probably used to playing using the relative minor. This was a epiphany for me when I discovered that I could play all my minor blues licks on songs in major keys and most of them sounded great!

I've heard stories about Jimmy practicing in the bathrooms of hotel rooms so as not to disturb the other sleeping/partying musicians on the road. It was said that he created a book that displayed all the possibilities for certain ideas all across the neck and practiced every one. I'm not sure if this is true but he possesses a fluidity across the neck to justify this level of devotion. I like the idea of young Jimmy running super-imposed triads up and down the neck with his ear on the body of the guitar, straining to hear the notes over the clamor out in the room. Ha, maybe so...maybe not. Wink
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Swain



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 38
Location: N. Little Rock, AR.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a cool tip!

Cool



You could even use those Pents with my "2 Scales In One Position" String-Skipping idea.
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