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Oasis question again - EbMaj7 and F7 over Cm7

 
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jconstant
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:31 pm    Post subject: Oasis question again - EbMaj7 and F7 over Cm7 Reply with quote

In Art of Rhythm Blues, Robben goes through Oasis in detail. He says he often plays EbMaj7 and F7 over that Cm4 (Cm11) chord. I get why the EbMaj7 works because Cm7 is the vii chord of the Eb harmonized scale. But, in the Eb harmonized scale the F7 would be Fmin7, no? Then why does it sound so good?
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Budda
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without going back to the DVD to listen, here's my first impression:

Since the Cm is the Chord Of The Moment, look to it as the "source" of these superimpositions.
If you think of Cm as a "ii Chord", then F7 would be the "V Chord".

Does the Tune then go to a Bb by chance?

ii V I if it's going to the Bb.

ii V at least, even if there's no Bb.

Does that help?
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Budda
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're working feverishly over on TGP to answer this, aren't they? Laughing

ii V

"Dorian"

Lots of roads to Rome.
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jconstant
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Budda wrote:
Without going back to the DVD to listen, here's my first impression:

Since the Cm is the Chord Of The Moment, look to it as the "source" of these superimpositions.
If you think of Cm as a "ii Chord", then F7 would be the "V Chord".

Does the Tune then go to a Bb by chance?

ii V I if it's going to the Bb.

ii V at least, even if there's no Bb.

Does that help?


Yes, actually it does so that makes sense.

The three basic chords the thing is based on are:

Cm4
x3334x

Ebm11
x66676

Bb7#9
6566xx

What he's focusing on in the part I'm talking about is options for playing over the Cm4 chord. The song stays on that chord (same goes for the Ebm11) for an extended period of time compared to the Bb7#9. So he's saying over that Cm4, getting a groove going by playing EbMaj7 and F7 back and forth is very cool. And he's right. Very Happy
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jconstant
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Budda wrote:
They're working feverishly over on TGP to answer this, aren't they? Laughing

ii V

"Dorian"

Lots of roads to Rome.


Um, yeah. Embarassed
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Budda
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is how I've approached a lot of similar musical situations. I use Triad Pairs a lot. Especially useful to me, when superimposing sounds. Here it is:

http://www.online-discussion.com/RobbenFord/viewtopic.php?t=2825
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jconstant
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Budda wrote:
This is how I've approached a lot of similar musical situations. I use Triad Pairs a lot. Especially useful to me, when superimposing sounds. Here it is:

http://www.online-discussion.com/RobbenFord/viewtopic.php?t=2825


Very nice, Budda. I was actually going to focus on triads today so I'll try some of your ideas out.

Thanks!
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Budda
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope you got something cool out of those Triad Pairs ideas.

Here's one cool Application that I like to use:

So, Cm to F7?

Try:

Eb G Bb

to

A C Eb

Or, Eb to Adim.


So, we've implied the Cm7 and the F7 with Triads now.
Just cycling Up a 3rd.

Maybe continuing to cycle up?

G Bb D

to

C Eb G

Gm to Cm

Now we've implied 9th. Chords.


11ths.?

Bb D F

to

Eb G Bb

Bb to Eb

13ths.?

D F A

to

G Bb D

Dm to Gm

And that's not even considering all the cool Altered things we could imply.

Anyway, sometimes running through these types of cycles will yield some cool ideas.

HTH.
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