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Why is C Melodic minor cool over an F7

 
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jconstant
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Why is C Melodic minor cool over an F7 Reply with quote

On Back to the Blues, Robben is talking about soloing over a minor blues progression in Am. This is one of those where for the IV chord, he's playing an F7, instead of a Dm7 as might normally be the case.

So as he's going through possible scales and he says that over the F7 you can play an F mixolydian (I'm cool with that) but they he says a C melodic minor is taylor made for the F7 as well.

Now I get why a C melodic minor is cool over an F7b5, but I'm not getting why it works over the F7. Doesn't that b5 make all the difference? I'm thinking if the chord being played is F7 and you play a C melodic minor, that's not going to work. And of course, the opposite would seem true as well. F mixolydian over an F7b5 - no worky.

Thoughts?

[/i]
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Bluelobster
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:46 pm    Post subject: # or b Reply with quote

F7 - fourth degree of C melodic minor. Scale is call Lydian flat seven by theory geeks. kinda memonic, lydian = Sharp fourth
Sharp fourth not to be confused with Flat five. ah ah ah . just kiddin'.

It is obvious the C melodic minor is taylored for the F7. It's just like you start playing that C-scale from the F , and if u unstack thirds you see :

F A C Eb (F7) G(9) B (#11) Eleventh being an octave from fourth.

Go ahead. Ask for more . Without any sarcasm , don't get me wrong, i think you are still trying to get that beast by the tail and it won't work.
Go and blast that beast right in the face.

Edited later : I added some more this morning but the whole thing bugged; here i am end of afternoon....Towards the end of my year in MI
in LA i asked one of my jazz teacher what to focus during my spring break (we were told to practice at least four hours a day , so there is no break in a sense) he told me to practice four modes of melodic minor in three fingerings (this imply you wank on a lot of pitches) 4 hours a day everyday of my break (15days).
Needless to say it paid off but meanwhile i was wanking on basic standards/

That is the magic of this school . Why don't U try out a 3 months ...Robben is revered and taught there.
My 2 cents
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jconstant
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: # or b Reply with quote

Bluelobster wrote:
F7 - fourth degree of C melodic minor. Scale is call Lydian flat seven by theory geeks. kinda memonic, lydian = Sharp fourth
Sharp fourth not to be confused with Flat five. ah ah ah . just kiddin'.

It is obvious the C melodic minor is taylored for the F7. It's just like you start playing that C-scale from the F , and if u unstack thirds you see :

F A C Eb (F7) G(9) B (#11) Eleventh being an octave from fourth.



But F7b5 is F A Cb Eb, so why would the C of the C melodic minor sound right against that Cb (B)?

And I'd love to be able to practice four hours a day but with a non-music career and three kids, that's just not gonna happen. Smile
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Bluelobster
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: Re: # or b Reply with quote

jconstant wrote:

But F7b5 is F A Cb Eb, so why would the C of the C melodic minor sound right against that Cb (B)?


Question I stick with B as a sharp 4.
And B note is just the last one of C minor melodic.Starting from B it is called Altered Scale.... Idea

Now if i u could give me the whole chords sequence it might be easier to get to a point.
Then again i don't want to bash but it is useless to think about it without knowing the scales from another side than the intellectuel one. We can't play "really" notes our brain don't "really know". That is why so often we can have this true feeling of insatisfaction, frustration when studying alone with audio or video tapes, it works so well on the paper , and that guy on the screen makes it so easy that you can hardly believe you suck that big when you grab your axe.
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jconstant
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: # or b Reply with quote

Bluelobster wrote:
jconstant wrote:

But F7b5 is F A Cb Eb, so why would the C of the C melodic minor sound right against that Cb (B)?


Question I stick with B as a sharp 4.
And B note is just the last one of C minor melodic.Starting from B it is called Altered Scale.... Idea

Now if i u could give me the whole chords sequence it might be easier to get to a point.
Then again i don't want to bash but it is useless to think about it without knowing the scales from another side than the intellectuel one. We can't play "really" notes our brain don't "really know". That is why so often we can have this true feeling of insatisfaction, frustration when studying alone with audio or video tapes, it works so well on the paper , and that guy on the screen makes it so easy that you can hardly believe you suck that big when you grab your axe.


Sorry, Blob. I'm confusing myself and didn't think it through enough. But now you've made me think this through a little more and I realize my question was silly in the first place. I see that it is taylor made because that Eb fits perfectly. And played over an F7b5 still works too because both have that B natural. I should have thought about it a little more before opening up my mouth. Thanks.

It's just a simple Am blues so Am, Dm, Em are the chords, but we're using an F7 instead of the normal IV chord in bars 5 and 6.

Wink
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Bluelobster
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:45 pm    Post subject: Minor Blues Reply with quote

Jim, no problem about silly. Theory is silly anyways Laughing
The cool part in answering you is that i actually had to take a pen , a paper and the guitar. So you made me practice.

Once a teacher gave me a "tip" : if you see a chord from anytype resolving on a fifth : let's say you have a Dchord going to Achord
you play altered scale.
And when you have a chord not resolving you use lydian b7, like
F7 going to Aminor.
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JackD
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the sound of that scale over that chord. I use it all the time!
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