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UncleSalty
Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Ibaraki, Japan
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 Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Come on fellas. Unfortunately, music, and guitar playing in particular, is often turned into a competition but it shouldn't be. It's entirely subjective. Some things resonate with you and some don't. I think Chris Duarte is a fine player, the small amount of stuff I've heard, and I respect his attempts to put his blues-based playing in a variety of more modern contexts, particularly on the underrated Tailspin Headwhack. But I think it's disingenuine when he refutes the SRV influence or claims he was playing like that before he ever heard Stevie.
Stevie's impact was enormous. Certainly not single-handedly, but he was a huge part of the blues/roots renaissance of the '80s. I was lucky enough to see Albert Collins, Albert King, Lonnie Mack and Buddy Guy in my native Australia largely because SRV's popularity made those artists a concert draw again. His impact on established players was as huge as the effect he had on younger guys like Kenny Wayne Shepherd & Joe Bonamassa. Eric Clapton got back a little of his old fire and Jeff Beck wanted to play again. Scott Henderson & Mike Landau would not play the way they do now if it wasn't for Stevie, regardless of what either of them say. Even Robben Ford has composed a tribute to SRV and songs like When I leave here and Start It Up show a little SRV first position E lick mojo.
I also think it's a little counter-productive to come on a discussion forum dedicated to Stevie and essentially bad mouth him in favour of another player, unless you're only interested in stirring up shit. Opinion's good but it's always good to back it up with examples, whatever. I don't think anybody here's blindly devoted to Stevie and we're more than happy to talk about why his tone on the '89 ACL was so awful etc. Flaming and name-calling gets us all nowhere.
Cheers
Salty |
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bluz_playa85
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| UncleSalty wrote: |
I also think it's a little counter-productive to come on a discussion forum dedicated to Stevie and essentially bad mouth him in favour of another player, unless you're only interested in stirring up shit. Opinion's good but it's always good to back it up with examples, whatever. I don't think anybody here's blindly devoted to Stevie and we're more than happy to talk about why his tone on the '89 ACL was so awful etc. Flaming and name-calling gets us all nowhere. |
i never once bad mouthed stevie. did i ever once say he sucks? did i ever once say his playing is boring? did i ever once say his tone was horrible? no because i'd be crazy if i did. did i give him props for opening many doors and inspiring alot of people? did i mention that he was a huge influence on myself? yes. Do I think Chris Duarte is a better technical guitarist? most definitley. but so what if he is? dont you think stevie would be happy that someone used his influence (among many others) and take it to a whole new level by adding flavors of john coltrane and miles davis in to it? i bet if he heard Chris play he'd have a huge smile on his face. He wouldint want to hear someone try to sound just like him. He'd want people to take what he left and make it grow. Stevie did love jazz...so does Chris. Thats a little thing called common ground. It's a good thing to have. |
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UncleSalty
Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Ibaraki, Japan
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| bluz_playa85 wrote: | | i never once bad mouthed stevie. did i ever once say he sucks? did i ever once say his playing is boring? did i ever once say his tone was horrible? no because i'd be crazy if i did. did i give him props for opening many doors and inspiring alot of people? did i mention that he was a huge influence on myself? yes. Do I think Chris Duarte is a better technical guitarist? most definitley. but so what if he is? dont you think stevie would be happy that someone used his influence (among many others) and take it to a whole new level by adding flavors of john coltrane and miles davis in to it? i bet if he heard Chris play he'd have a huge smile on his face. He wouldint want to hear someone try to sound just like him. He'd want people to take what he left and make it grow. Stevie did love jazz...so does Chris. Thats a little thing called common ground. It's a good thing to have. |
I don't want to bag on Duarte, because he's certainly a better player than I'll probably ever be, but I don't really hear the Miles/Coltrane in his playing. Admittedly, I haven't heard a lot of his stuff and I'm not sure what he can do live, but I think he tends to work out of the same vocabulary as Stevie and Jimi in his solos. Certainly, the broader your musical palette the better. Personally I think players like SRV and Jimi were better at absorbing jazz influences than a lot of more technically accomplished players. Stevie was very seamless in the way he'd mix up the genres. It's definitely a difficult thing to do. |
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bluz_playa85
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| UncleSalty wrote: |
I don't want to bag on Duarte, because he's certainly a better player than I'll probably ever be, but I don't really hear the Miles/Coltrane in his playing. Admittedly, I haven't heard a lot of his stuff and I'm not sure what he can do live, but I think he tends to work out of the same vocabulary as Stevie and Jimi in his solos. Certainly, the broader your musical palette the better. Personally I think players like SRV and Jimi were better at absorbing jazz influences than a lot of more technically accomplished players. Stevie was very seamless in the way he'd mix up the genres. It's definitely a difficult thing to do. |
you kinda have to see Chris live or get to know him and watch him realy practice to understand just how fluent he is at playing like Coltrane. He even told me that he wouldint mind being considered a Coltrane "clone". He never really got into that style of playing on his albums because of the label he's under. He said that they mainly want him to stick to the blues/rock genre because that's what he sells best. If you have Limewire or Kazaa try to find some of his live stuff. If you can find a live version of "Big Legged Woman" that would be best. He kinda takes it out there a little on that tune, but there are others as well.
The thing about jazz as opposed to blues is jazz is more about phrasing rather than feel. thats why guys like Robben Ford and Scott Henderson are so great, because they have both. Chris is the same way. I jammed with him and we played "All Along The Watchtower" and in the 3 chords that make up that song, he played EVERY possible note and scale with such ease and fluidity that i'll never forget it. Not once did he play one Hendrix lick that was in the original solo. I wish I could have recorded it and put it up on here.
Stevie for sure had his moments when he'd play some cool jazz stuff, like "Stang's Swang" but even that was mostly pentatonic scales. i guess thats where the modes start comin in but that in itself is a pain in the ass to even think about!  |
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TTrahan
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Wow,
Haven't been on the board in a few days and look what happens, lol.
First of all, no personal attacks you guys, lets keep it clean.
This was all fine before someone took a shot a Bluz Playa, you know who you are.
Hold on, let me get the white out...lol |
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kenny74
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Bluzplaya,
I refuse to hold a grudge against anyone for their opinions so I must say we'll agree to disagree. Do you agree?  |
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UncleSalty
Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Ibaraki, Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| bluz_playa85 wrote: | | Stevie for sure had his moments when he'd play some cool jazz stuff, like "Stang's Swang" but even that was mostly pentatonic scales. i guess thats where the modes start comin in but that in itself is a pain in the ass to even think about! |
I don't think Stevie ever thought of himself as a jazz player. He couldn't really play changes, tending to stick to pentatonics on tunes with changes like Riviera Paradise. His phrasing was awesome, though, and that would always get him through. Not unlike Albert King or Albert Collins. |
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TTrahan
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| bluz_playa85 wrote: | | with that said, im curious to who your other big influences are. just wondering. |
I'm not sure if anyone answered this or not.
Hmm,
I like Trower, and really try to mix some Betts into my style. Its hard, but I try! And I actually have developed some cool major/minor stuff from mixing SRV and Betts. So I sort of have my own little thing going when I play my own tunes.
Obviously I have learned from Collins, the 3 Kings, Muddy, etc...but that is a given if you play blues IMO.
I have people that I would like to sing like, but fail to do so! Like Tommy Castro, Al Green, Ian Moore, Stevie Wonder, etc. My biggest singing influence is probably Freddie King, because he yells (and does it great, sounds so powerful and awesome. I think Greg Allman got his voice from Freddie King), and thats all I can do! |
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bluz_playa85
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Wow Im glad someone finally mentioned Ian here. He's another friend of mine from my time in Austin, and he's a really cool guy on top of being a fabulous musician. He's what i call a "triple threat" because 1. he can play great guitar (even tho he chooses not to play electric anymore) 2. he can write great songs and 3. he's a hell of a singer!!! you dont get much better than him at any of those things. |
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bluz_playa85
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| UncleSalty wrote: |
I don't think Stevie ever thought of himself as a jazz player. He couldn't really play changes, tending to stick to pentatonics on tunes with changes like Riviera Paradise. His phrasing was awesome, though, and that would always get him through. Not unlike Albert King or Albert Collins. |
i agree with this 110%. his phrasing made up for his lack of knowlage in the jazz department. And for songs like Riviera Paradise phrasing and feeling are much more important than scales. |
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UncleSalty
Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Ibaraki, Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| TTrahan wrote: | | bluz_playa85 wrote: | | with that said, im curious to who your other big influences are. just wondering. |
I'm not sure if anyone answered this or not.
Hmm,
I like Trower, and really try to mix some Betts into my style. Its hard, but I try! And I actually have developed some cool major/minor stuff from mixing SRV and Betts. So I sort of have my own little thing going when I play my own tunes.
Obviously I have learned from Collins, the 3 Kings, Muddy, etc...but that is a given if you play blues IMO.
I have people that I would like to sing like, but fail to do so! Like Tommy Castro, Al Green, Ian Moore, Stevie Wonder, etc. My biggest singing influence is probably Freddie King, because he yells (and does it great, sounds so powerful and awesome. I think Greg Allman got his voice from Freddie King), and thats all I can do! |
My two biggest influences to this day are Hendrix and Clapton. I have an LP because that's what EC used on the Beano album and Fresh Cream and I have the 57 reissue because I wanted a guitar that looked like Brownie, pictured on the back of the Layla album. My all time favourite guitar tone is still Spoonful off of Fresh Cream. Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page are also big influences. I'm always surprised (should that be disappointed?) at how much I sound like Page in the heat of the moment.
Another big one is Peter Green in his Fleetwood Mac days. I particularly like his writing. Robben Ford, too. I'm hoping some of that seamless blend of jazz and blues will seep into my own overly pentatonic playing.
I play a lot of slide and so Duane Allman was a big influence on that. I think I learnt all the slide solos on the early Allmans records and Layla. Johnny Winter, too. I like both, but I've always slightly preferred his slide work to his standard work. Lately, Derek Trucks and Robert Randolph have given me a whole lot of new inspiration on slide.
As for singers, after Muddy, I think my all time favourite blues singer is Otis Rush. Awesome power. BB's great, too. He phrases really well and knows just the right moment to unleash that trademark growl. His singing and playing work wonderfully together. |
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bluz_playa85
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| UncleSalty wrote: |
I particularly like his writing. Robben Ford, too. I'm hoping some of that seamless blend of jazz and blues will seep into my own overly pentatonic playing. |
im sending u a PM about this subject...keep an eye out for it |
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TTrahan
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| bluz_playa85 wrote: |
Wow Im glad someone finally mentioned Ian here. He's another friend of mine from my time in Austin, and he's a really cool guy on top of being a fabulous musician. He's what i call a "triple threat" because 1. he can play great guitar (even tho he chooses not to play electric anymore) 2. he can write great songs and 3. he's a hell of a singer!!! you dont get much better than him at any of those things. |
Ian might be my favorite musician since SRV died. He is flat out amazing. |
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bluz_playa85
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| TTrahan wrote: | | Ian might be my favorite musician since SRV died. He is flat out amazing. |
my fave Ian songs have to be Blue Sky, Train Tracks, Dandelion, Muddy Jesus...i could go on and on. I actually did a cover of Deliver Me on my first album and he really dug it which meant alot to me. |
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Ron S
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 17
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:49 am Post subject: Wannabes? |
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Here's my confession.
Reading this thread and the 'be original' thread I realised that in reality I think I have spent the majority of my guitar playing years (27) being a wannabe. When I started I wanted to play like Hank Marvin (sorry to bring his name into this  ) then Knopfler, then Brian May, switched to bass and wanted to be Mark King, then Jaco then Billy Sheehan, back to guitar Eddy Van Halen, Satch, Vai, SRV etc etc ad infinitum (apologies if I left out anybody) Actually at the moment I'm really into Robben Ford.
Just to clarify I'm not insinuating that I ever actually managed to play as well as any of them. 
Anyone else care to admit...............just me then!
Ron S |
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