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stratovarious
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Some interesting speculation. Here we have SRV, who was rather interested and involved with getting a good sound and putting in a fair amount of effort (sometimes via his guitar and amp techs) to get it.
Contrast that to Hendrix. I have to assume Hendrix was after a good sound, too, but there were so many examples of him grabbing just any Strat and plugging into just whatever amp they had for him on stage. He ran tons of high-capacitance cheapo curly cords all over the place -- no shorties between effects pedals.
Sometimes I got the hunch that Hendrix was trying to show he could do it no matter what the settup. With SRV we see the evolution toward more concern of his instrument's actual tone. He had to be clued in about some of this, though. Read the Cesar Diaz article in The ToneQuest Report. It's most informative.
Even for Stevie, Dumbles are had to come by and costly. Certainly he would have taken advantage of the many hand-made and boutique amps available now. How could he resist?
Sidenote: Re the TS 10 mentioned above. That one contains the chip most commonly used in the original TS 808 and current re-issues.
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UncleSalty
Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Ibaraki, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| stratovarious wrote: | Contrast that to Hendrix. I have to assume Hendrix was after a good sound, too, but there were so many examples of him grabbing just any Strat and plugging into just whatever amp they had for him on stage. He ran tons of high-capacitance cheapo curly cords all over the place -- no shorties between effects pedals.
Sometimes I got the hunch that Hendrix was trying to show he could do it no matter what the settup. |
I think you also need to keep in mind that Jimi, along with Clapton, Beck and Page, was a pioneer in the use of effects. He was one of the first people to use a wah-wah, the first to use the Octavia & the Uni Vibe. People didn't really know how to hook that stuff up and how to keep the noise down. By the time SRV was releasing records, people had been using effects for about 20 years. I'm sure that if Hendrix had lived, he would have been all over things like the Floyd Rose, because, even though they mess with your tone, they are convenient.
The other thing to remember is that Stevie was after a totally different aesthetic from Jimi. While Jimi was on a constant search for new and interesting sounds, SRV was defiantly retro. For Jimi, the only sound template was the one he heard in his head. SRV was all about refining the things he heard in Albert King, Albert Collins and Hendrix, too. That was why, in a world of Van Halen clones, his sound was so refreshing when he came out in the early 80s. |
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TTrahan
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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I think Jimi's studio tones were unreal. I think SRV's studio tones after Texas Flood are okay.
I think Jimi's live tone, for the most part, had a lot of room for improvement. But I realize that this is because of unreliable equipment, using whatever worked, etc. His tone wasn't that great live.
I think SRV's tone live was to die for, for the most part. His early tone's were awesome, strictly Guitar-->Wah-->Tubscreamer--> CRANKED Amps. His tone had that really cool glassy clean sound, which I love. However, the tone on Live Alive and the Montreax shows was awful, IMO. It sounded tiny. Fast forward to 1987ish and his big huge tone was back. Sounded mostly like the Dumble to me, not sure though. I love that tone. Fast forward some more to the In Step tone, which I think was the 2nd worse tone year for him besides '85, LOL. I hate the fuzz tone, love the clean/overdriven tone. |
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TTrahan
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| UncleSalty wrote: | | stratovarious wrote: | Contrast that to Hendrix. I have to assume Hendrix was after a good sound, too, but there were so many examples of him grabbing just any Strat and plugging into just whatever amp they had for him on stage. He ran tons of high-capacitance cheapo curly cords all over the place -- no shorties between effects pedals.
Sometimes I got the hunch that Hendrix was trying to show he could do it no matter what the settup. |
I think you also need to keep in mind that Jimi, along with Clapton, Beck and Page, was a pioneer in the use of effects. He was one of the first people to use a wah-wah, the first to use the Octavia & the Uni Vibe. People didn't really know how to hook that stuff up and how to keep the noise down. By the time SRV was releasing records, people had been using effects for about 20 years. I'm sure that if Hendrix had lived, he would have been all over things like the Floyd Rose, because, even though they mess with your tone, they are convenient.
The other thing to remember is that Stevie was after a totally different aesthetic from Jimi. While Jimi was on a constant search for new and interesting sounds, SRV was defiantly retro. For Jimi, the only sound template was the one he heard in his head. SRV was all about refining the things he heard in Albert King, Albert Collins and Hendrix, too. That was why, in a world of Van Halen clones, his sound was so refreshing when he came out in the early 80s. |
Salty,
Good explanation man, I never really looked at it like that. Learn somethin' new everyday I guess.
Cheers,
Troy |
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CocoTone
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Garden Hill Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Blind Melon Chitlin wrote: | | TTrahan wrote: | Vaughanabe - If SRV was so attached to his VINTAGE tubescreamers, why on earth would he use TS10s, he used every tubescreamer he could get his hands on. Plus, the 808s would'nt be so SOUGHT AFTER if he hadn't of passed. I mean shit, you can buy a clone for $150 with truebypass that sounds exactly like an 808. The vintage one's would be getting shit canned if he was still alive, because there would be no "I can get SRV tone with my vintage 808!". The new pedals don't hold a candle to the vintage equipment?? Have you played any of the new pedals out there? Not from Boss, but from MJM, Barber, Landgraff, Menatone, etc?
The best pedals EVER are out right now. I'm sick of hearing the vintage bullshit.
I've even seen shows where he used an EH Hot Tubes. He wasn't that attached to them, c'mon. Crowther Audio Hotcake was in the rotation for
a little while as well, not long, but he was experimenting.
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I had an original TS-808 and a TS-10. Some of you might not want to hear this....but it's the truth: the only audible difference between the TS-808 and the TS-10 was fairly slight. The TS-10 was a bit brighter and a tad more compressed but that was it. They were actually very close. They sounded different enough to tell the two apart in an A/B test, but if you had to substitute one for the other I have serious doubts that most people would notice a difference on stage.
A few years ago I had to drive to Houston to do a gig, and I forgot the bag containing my cables and stomp box back in Austin, but I didn't realize it until I was already in Houston unloading my gear. I got on the phone with a guy I knew who lived near by and asked him if I could borrow a pedal or two to get me through my gig that night.
"Sure," he said. "What do you need?"
"Well I normally use a Fulldrive 2."
"Don't have one of those but I've got a couple vintage Tube Screamers, an original Fuzz Face, a Chandler Tube Driver and a few other things."
"Two Tube Screamers would be great," I said.
So I did the gig with an original TS-808 and an original TS-9. They sounded okay but man did I miss my Fulldrive that night. I'm not one of those guys that copps an attitude like my shit is better than everyone elses, but to my surprise I really didn't like the vintage tube screamers as much as the Fulldrive. There's just better sounding stuff out there and that's a good example IMHO. People need to get that Tube Screamer=Stevie Ray equasion out of their heads. He used them because they were one of the best sounding boxes availabe at the time. He used the best sounding gear he could find and when he'd find something better he wasn't affraid to use it.
The word vintage can be defined as: something which cannot be reproduced. With respect to tube amplifiers and solid body electric guitars, the word vintage does not apply. Arch tops, acoustics violins etc. are another story because their tonal characteristics change over time, and that's not something that can be reproduced or copied. Tube amps and solid body guitars, on the other hand, are another story. With respect to tube amps, the only thing that's changed is the overall quality of tubes that are available. But I suspect that a fair amount of that is nothing but hype. New Old Stock American made tubes might last longer than garden variety Russian tubes, but everybody who uses Sovteks and whatever in their amps seems to be making do just fine.
A lot of propaganda gets circulated, which was only ever spawned in the first place, to get people to pay more money than they should in persuit of 'that tone'. The whole concept of 'Texas Tone' was invented by editors at guitar magazines and the people who write advertizing copy for boutique amp companies like Kendrick. Believe me, I live in Texas and no one ever says "I got that Texas Tone!" Tone is subjective, but ultimately there's only two kinds: good tone and shitty tone.  |
This is the first intelligent post I`ve read on this subject. You are right on when it comes to SRV using better, more up-to-date stuff. If he were alive today, i think he`d have a mixed bag of vintage and modern, and the amps would be also a mixed bag of stuff, although I think, as he got older, he would have simplified his rig, as was starting to happen on family style. One good amp, or maybe an A/B setup, but the thirty something setup would go out the window.
CT. 
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Old age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill!! |
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TTrahan
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| CocoTone wrote: | | Blind Melon Chitlin wrote: | | TTrahan wrote: | Vaughanabe - If SRV was so attached to his VINTAGE tubescreamers, why on earth would he use TS10s, he used every tubescreamer he could get his hands on. Plus, the 808s would'nt be so SOUGHT AFTER if he hadn't of passed. I mean shit, you can buy a clone for $150 with truebypass that sounds exactly like an 808. The vintage one's would be getting shit canned if he was still alive, because there would be no "I can get SRV tone with my vintage 808!". The new pedals don't hold a candle to the vintage equipment?? Have you played any of the new pedals out there? Not from Boss, but from MJM, Barber, Landgraff, Menatone, etc?
The best pedals EVER are out right now. I'm sick of hearing the vintage bullshit.
I've even seen shows where he used an EH Hot Tubes. He wasn't that attached to them, c'mon. Crowther Audio Hotcake was in the rotation for
a little while as well, not long, but he was experimenting.
|
I had an original TS-808 and a TS-10. Some of you might not want to hear this....but it's the truth: the only audible difference between the TS-808 and the TS-10 was fairly slight. The TS-10 was a bit brighter and a tad more compressed but that was it. They were actually very close. They sounded different enough to tell the two apart in an A/B test, but if you had to substitute one for the other I have serious doubts that most people would notice a difference on stage.
A few years ago I had to drive to Houston to do a gig, and I forgot the bag containing my cables and stomp box back in Austin, but I didn't realize it until I was already in Houston unloading my gear. I got on the phone with a guy I knew who lived near by and asked him if I could borrow a pedal or two to get me through my gig that night.
"Sure," he said. "What do you need?"
"Well I normally use a Fulldrive 2."
"Don't have one of those but I've got a couple vintage Tube Screamers, an original Fuzz Face, a Chandler Tube Driver and a few other things."
"Two Tube Screamers would be great," I said.
So I did the gig with an original TS-808 and an original TS-9. They sounded okay but man did I miss my Fulldrive that night. I'm not one of those guys that copps an attitude like my shit is better than everyone elses, but to my surprise I really didn't like the vintage tube screamers as much as the Fulldrive. There's just better sounding stuff out there and that's a good example IMHO. People need to get that Tube Screamer=Stevie Ray equasion out of their heads. He used them because they were one of the best sounding boxes availabe at the time. He used the best sounding gear he could find and when he'd find something better he wasn't affraid to use it.
The word vintage can be defined as: something which cannot be reproduced. With respect to tube amplifiers and solid body electric guitars, the word vintage does not apply. Arch tops, acoustics violins etc. are another story because their tonal characteristics change over time, and that's not something that can be reproduced or copied. Tube amps and solid body guitars, on the other hand, are another story. With respect to tube amps, the only thing that's changed is the overall quality of tubes that are available. But I suspect that a fair amount of that is nothing but hype. New Old Stock American made tubes might last longer than garden variety Russian tubes, but everybody who uses Sovteks and whatever in their amps seems to be making do just fine.
A lot of propaganda gets circulated, which was only ever spawned in the first place, to get people to pay more money than they should in persuit of 'that tone'. The whole concept of 'Texas Tone' was invented by editors at guitar magazines and the people who write advertizing copy for boutique amp companies like Kendrick. Believe me, I live in Texas and no one ever says "I got that Texas Tone!" Tone is subjective, but ultimately there's only two kinds: good tone and shitty tone. |
This is the first intelligent post I`ve read on this subject.
CT. |
So what does that mean for the rest of us? |
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CocoTone
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Garden Hill Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Uhm,,let me see,,,suckin` a hind tit maybe???
CT.
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Old age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill!! |
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TTrahan
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| CocoTone wrote: | Uhm,,let me see,,,suckin` a hind tit maybe???
CT. |
Not too familiar with that, but if it was meant in a mean way, that kind of sucks.
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Vaughanabe13
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| I stand by my statements, but I guess I could have phrased it better. I thought you guys were serious in those statements, which was kind of upsetting. |
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TTrahan
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:53 am Post subject: |
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What if SRV would have went Digital/Rack...LOL.
::hides behind tree::
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UncleSalty
Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Ibaraki, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| CocoTone wrote: | I think, as he got older, he would have simplified his rig, as was starting to happen on family style. One good amp, or maybe an A/B setup, but the thirty something setup would go out the window.
CT. |
I think the 32+ set up was probably a crutch. Under the pressure of recording his first sober album, essentially his comeback album, and with the time and money at his disposal - as well as, Cesar Diaz, who was apparently running the whole thing - Stevie went in search of the perfect tone to impress his listeners. Funny that the simpler set up of his first two albums was probably the better tone. Excess rarely leads to musical results. |
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CocoTone
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Garden Hill Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| UncleSalty wrote: | | CocoTone wrote: | I think, as he got older, he would have simplified his rig, as was starting to happen on family style. One good amp, or maybe an A/B setup, but the thirty something setup would go out the window.
CT. |
I think the 32+ set up was probably a crutch. Under the pressure of recording his first sober album, essentially his comeback album, and with the time and money at his disposal - as well as, Cesar Diaz, who was apparently running the whole thing - Stevie went in search of the perfect tone to impress his listeners. Funny that the simpler set up of his first two albums was probably the better tone. Excess rarely leads to musical results. |
I agree,,and the tone on family style will bea that theory out. The tones both Jimmy and SRV get on that album are more pure, fat, and well, `Fendery` to my ears. The tone on Tic Toc still gives me goosebumps.
And TTrahan, lighten up willya?? When you get older, you`ll see what I mean.
CT.
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Old age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill!! |
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TTrahan
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| CocoTone wrote: | | UncleSalty wrote: | | CocoTone wrote: | I think, as he got older, he would have simplified his rig, as was starting to happen on family style. One good amp, or maybe an A/B setup, but the thirty something setup would go out the window.
CT. |
I think the 32+ set up was probably a crutch. Under the pressure of recording his first sober album, essentially his comeback album, and with the time and money at his disposal - as well as, Cesar Diaz, who was apparently running the whole thing - Stevie went in search of the perfect tone to impress his listeners. Funny that the simpler set up of his first two albums was probably the better tone. Excess rarely leads to musical results. |
I agree,,and the tone on family style will bea that theory out. The tones both Jimmy and SRV get on that album are more pure, fat, and well, `Fendery` to my ears. The tone on Tic Toc still gives me goosebumps.
And TTrahan, lighten up willya?? When you get older, you`ll see what I mean.
CT. |
CT, you really hurt me, I'm not sure what to do
I'm kiddin... 
It's all good man. I don't need to get older, I see what you mean now..
Just wasn't sure if you were being rude or if you were joshin' me. |
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CocoTone
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Garden Hill Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Listen to this dude`s tone man!
http://philip.bstrongspeaktru.com/
Chops aint bad either!!
CT.
_________________
Old age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill!! |
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TTrahan
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Coco,
Voodoo just put up a thread about Sayce in Open Discussion area.
He's definitely good, he can play SRV licks at the speed of light, LOL.
Sometimes he gets a little to rocket fast for me, but I like his energy, not too mention his tone!
I downloaded those vids with him and healy about a month ago, that's some sweet stuff for sure! |
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