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Heel truss rod adjustment tone...

 
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countandduke



Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Heel truss rod adjustment tone... Reply with quote

I have a fairly expensive guitar that has a heel adjustment truss rod. The only way to adjust it is by taking the neck off the guitar. It’s a pain in the ass and I’ve heard the reason the company does it that way is to maintain the “classic” tone of a strat. I don’t think I have an ear good enough to hear that difference. Scott??? Or anyone else..? Can you hear a difference in a truss rod if it’s accessed through the heel versus the much easier adjustment via the headstock?

Thanks...

Chris[/quote]
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Conor22002



Joined: 27 Jun 2018
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I almost watch your all shows and events and I must say that you have magic in your hands when you play guitar. The homeworkmarket.club introduces you in front of me so I know about you at the start.
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Scott Henderson
The Man


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2121

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Chris, I thought I answered this question but I don't see my answer. My Suhr guitars have heel adjusted truss rods, but there's a recessed access point and a special Allen wrench so it's easy to do. The only reason for a tonal change between heel/headstock adjustment is that the adjustment point is probably a few ounces heavier, so if it's at the headstock it could add some mass, which can change the tone. I use a Snark headstock tuner and it definitely changes the tone - I can deal with it live but I wouldn't record with it.
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countandduke



Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Scott, you DID answer my question😃. It must have been deleted somehow...weird. Anyways, thanks for answering again.

Best,
Chris
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Scott Henderson
The Man


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2121

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Chris or anyone interested in this topic, I just noticed that my Suhr guitars with roasted necks have the truss rod adjustment at the headstock, and the non-roasted neck guitars have the adjustment at the heel. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not - I'll ask John. I can't say for sure if the adjustment point makes a difference in tone because the roasted neck itself changes the tone (in my opinion).
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Kevin Thomas



Joined: 01 Apr 2016
Posts: 154
Location: France

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you'll discover the tone difference has nothing to do with the roasted neck, but with the truss rod.
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Scott Henderson
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got an answer from John about this - nothing to do with the neck being roasted or not. Some of his older guitars have the adjustment at the heel but they changed to a headstock adjustment because it's more accurate to install and easier for the user to adjust. John says where the adjustment is makes no difference in the tone.
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countandduke



Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting... I wouldn’t mind a heel adjustment, but on my guitar (higher end model) I have to REMOVE the neck to access the truss rod. Kind of a pain in the ass!

The neck IS roasted so I’m hoping after a year or 2 that the neck just won’t move as much. This is my first “roasted” neck and to me the tone seems a bit more “focused”. Hard to put into words, ithe tone also sounds a bit more “warm” as opposed to a regular NON roasted maple neck...

Scott, how do you think the tone changes? My neck is ALL maple, not maple with a rosewood fingerboard BTW...

Best,
Chris
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Scott Henderson
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's very difficult to compare in a scientific way - you'd have to put a roasted and non-roasted neck on the same guitar and record them on different tracks.

That being said, my guitars with roasted necks sound better than the other ones. Two of my guitars have roasted necks and bodies and those are my two favorites. Coincidence? No idea. I can only quote John when he says roasting the wood makes it sound deeper and warmer.

BTW, Suhr cuts my pick guards so I can take them off without having to remove the neck - it's definitely a pain.
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countandduke



Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree you need a roasted neck and NON roasted neck in the same Guitar to compare. What’s interesting is that I imagine the moisture content of a ROASTED neck is less than a NON-roasted neck, so to me, that would make the wood “harder”. Which typically means “brighter”. It’s VERY hard to accurately verbalize “tone” sometimes...

I have friends that will argue all day that a single coil has LESS bass than a humbucker. Well, maybe now we’re onto a different subject.

I’ll close things out by saying that even IF my pickguard were cutout like you say Scott, it STILL won’t work because the heel adjustment is a Phillips head and it’s flush with the neck. It’s NOT an Allen whrench adjustable trussrod.

Oh well...

Best,
Chris
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Scott Henderson
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many people argue tone without the facts to back it up. I can back up everything I say with WAV files. It's not very scientific to compare gear which takes time to change, like comparing pickups. The most accurate way is to record the same notes using different gear on different tracks, and then compare the tracks. I can't hear subtile differences while I'm playing, I need my full attention when listening.

I have a 30 second "solo" which covers the whole neck. I'm able to play it exactly the same, and I'm very careful to use the same part of the pick, at exactly the same place on the strings. If there's a difference in anything from a cable to an amp, my testing method will allow me to hear it.

A few things I've learned:

Maple necks are not brighter than rosewood. Rosewood is actually brighter, creating a boost at around 10k. It's subtle, but it's there. This was an accurate test done by putting 4 different necks on the same guitar.

People who say humbucking pickups have more bass than single coils should never be engineers.

Setting a 4x12 cabinet on the floor with no rubber feet causes the cabinet not to vibrate, making it sound horribly thin.

Running an amp at 8 ohms into an 8 ohm load sounds fatter than 16, and less fizzy than 4. It's what we're used to hearing because most of the great guitar recordings were made at 8 ohms.

All I know about roasted necks is that they have less moisture, and "tap lower" than non-roasted necks. What that means is, you can take a neck with only one tuner attached, hold it by the tuner and tap the neck on the back. It'll make a note (I've forgotten the range). John says the roasted necks produce a lower note than non-roasted necks, and the lower that note is, the deeper the tone of the guitar. There must be exceptions, but John says in general that's the way it works. The main thing I've learned is that the neck is equally responsible for the tone of the guitar as the body.

So much about tone is subjective, but most people would agree on these things which are based more on fact than personal taste. For example, I've always said that pressboard backs on new Marshall cabinets sound like shit, but there are people who like that tone better than vintage cabs with birch backs. Go figure.
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ItAllanLover



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Scott, when you say "Neck" you mean fretboard, or the actual "body" of the neck?
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Scott Henderson
The Man


Joined: 20 May 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The body of the neck, not the fretboard.
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countandduke



Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott...thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and insight! If someone would have told me I would be able to correspond with a world-class musician like yourself.

You said you were able to test and record FOUR different necks on the same guitar. Is that information available somewhere? I really need to buy your classes and “workshops”, just need to save the money.

One of my fears is that future generations will only get a “simulated” version of real tube amps, but thanks to you Scott, I realize there are SOOOOOOO many aspects to our “tone” and I mean that in a good way.

I just hope real tube amps won’t become a thing of the past.

Best,
Chris
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Scott Henderson
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have any workshops on tone other than the video I did for MyMusicMasterclass, but that's mainly about recording. I do testing just because I'm curious, and I send the WAV files to the people who asked me to do the test, or to friends who're interested. I have a group of friends who's ears I really trust, so sometimes I send them files just so I know I'm not crazy when a test surprises me.

I just sent a friend WAV files of a Klon, a Klon clone from Korea (say that fast 10 times), a Seymour Duncan Forza, and a Klon KTR. Surprisingly we both thought the Klon KTR was by far the worst of the four. The Forza doesn't sound exactly like a Klon, and it's not trying to, but it's a great pedal. The winner was the Klon, even though the clone sounded so close that I doubt you'd hear the difference in the tracks. These tests only take me a few minutes to do and I like sharing the results with my friends.

I don't think tube amps are going to be obsolete anytime soon - the growing popularity of IR technology depends on tube amps. I think people like me who wall up their windows so they can crank up a 4x12 at home are obsolete. ha ha
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