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modern classical transcribing

 
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slyzspyz



Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 27
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:28 pm    Post subject: modern classical transcribing Reply with quote

hey Scott

on the GW podcast a couple of weeks ago we heard you talking about listening to and transcribing (amongst other genres) classical music, and some lessons you've taken lately.

Are there any concepts/suggested listening lists/tips etc from all of that which you'd be willing to share here?

Otherwise, have you considered putting together a lesson package for those of us who are interested in incorporating more of that into our own practice?

eg if a player feels they know what they need to work on regarding playing over chord changes, and wants to venture more into modern extended harmony, voice leading etc
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Scott Henderson
The Man


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2135

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's actually a teaching question so I can't do that for free, but I will say that any kind of music can be simplified as chords and melody, written out like a Real Book tune. Of course the counterpoint isn't there, but it gives you a good idea of what's going on harmonically.

I've considered putting a composition lesson together for My Music Masterclass, but I wouldn't want to base it solely on my music - I'd have to include my favorite composers, which would bring up copyright issues. I need to find out how many seconds of material I'm allowed to use before breaking copyright laws, and if that's enough time to demonstrate what I need to.

Transcribing is a huge part of learning about music, and you don't need a teacher to do it. Most people who know basic music theory are able to transcribe a tune and analyze it - find out where the diatonic parts are, note where the modulations are, realize which sections are repeated and when new material is introduced, etc. Transcribe everything from Bach to Steely Dan, and you'll start to see the similarities in all kinds of music.
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slyzspyz



Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 27
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the reply Scott,
I couched it assuming it was a teaching question and didn't expect a free "lesson", but maybe there's a couple of composers you could suggest checking out that aren't on the everyday mainstream radar?
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Scott Henderson
The Man


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2135

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as new composers, sorry I have no idea. From what I've been hearing from the new generation of jazz musicians, I'd have to say that composing isn't a priority. That's understandable, considering that it's very easy in this day and age to feel like every possible melody and chord progression has already been used. Those guys realize that tons of valuable practice time can easily be eaten up by trying to compose, and that playing is more fun anyway. I'd be the first one to agree - it's a job, it's not supposed to be fun. Some famous composer said "if you're having a good time composing, you're probably writing a piece of shit." I know some "happy" writers, and their music IS shit.

Well, that wasn't helpful at all - so hopefully this will be. I think in jazz, the concept of "simple, singable melodies over untraditional harmony" started with Miles, especially with the Wayne & Herbie band. Charles Mingus was also a big contributor. In my opinion the Weather Report style of composing was influenced by those guys. Unlike Joe who became a bandleader and composer later in his career, Wayne had already released records with dozens of tunes which were way more modern sounding than typical standards based on ii V I progressions. Your study of modern jazz writing couldn't get a better start than with Wayne's tunes in the Real Book.

What seems to be "under the radar" are the classical musicians who more than likely were the inspiration for that type of harmony - composers like Ravel, Debussy, Scriabin and many others. After transcribing a lot of Zawinul's music, there's no doubt in my mind that some of that vocabulary came from classical music, especially since I know that Joe played classical music for many years before he was a jazz musician.

There are other jazz musicians who were influenced by more famous composers like Bach and Beethoven - check out the online videos of Ted Greene playing standards. He was able to interpret that music in such a way that it sounds like he's improvising classical music. Jimmy Wyble was also famous for using counterpoint in his own unique way, but there's a classical influence for sure.

Sorry for the long reply, but let me say again that transcribing just about anything is helpful. I learned a lot from playing in top 40 bands and having to learn those tunes by ear - some of them were bullshit, but some of them had cool harmony and great original ideas.
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