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Fender type (clean) amps vs OD pedals

 
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Thumberstrummer



Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 7:10 pm    Post subject: Fender type (clean) amps vs OD pedals Reply with quote

Hi Scott.
Hope you’re well and looking with confidence at the (hopefully) near gigging future!
During the years I’ve collected a lot of OD pedals (never enough to me Wink, but not the all of them work fine in front of my Fender ’59 Bassman Reissue. On the way around, almost ANY pedals seems working fine and sounding great in front of my Plexi.
Well, I do know that OD and distortion pedals sounds way better in front of a dirty amp.
But in some gigs I can’t miss a good clean tone - that’s why I’ve decided to add a Fender to my amp arsenal. Nevertheless I expect such same amp to change attitude when I switch on my OD pedals, considering I have at least 2 or 3 dirt generators ALWAYS on my board, as I love the different flavor each one brings in.
Unfortunately certain stompboxes, sounding good on the Plexi not always match the Fender different behavior, and may sound harsh, or thin, or too bright, our too loud and noisy, no matter how you set them, so that any time I plan to use the Fender some major adjustments are needed on my board, not only in terms of controls setting on each pedal, but also in pedals choice.
For example the Maxon SD9 is ok either in front of a clean or a semi-dirty amp. That’s a real Swiss army knife, a staple on my board…
But the RC Booster, which I love and use a lot on the Plexi, is almost unusable when put in front of the Fender because of the huge raise in volume and the hum it brings in, unless I roll its volume knob down half way, which turns it into a kind of dead tone machine.
In your experience, what pedals (a few example of) sounds best (or good at least) when used in front of a clean amp, and what are to avoid?
What pedals would you suggest to use as a one trick pony for both worlds?
Of course I’m not referring to a recording studio scenario, where I normally bring along many pedals and make a choice based on each tune character…
Many thanks in advance
Fabio
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Scott Henderson
The Man


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2121

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is more of a question for Mike Landau. He uses mostly Fender style amps and always gets a great tone - but I have no idea how he does it. I have the same problem you do, because every Fender amp I've tried is too clean and my tone is very thin when using my normal pedals like the RC Booster and SD-9.

It's possible that Mike is combining pedals when getting higher gain tones, but his music has kinda changed and is a bit mellower now, so the last few times I've seen him play, his tone never went into high gain territory. That being said, I've seen him use Fender amps with his heavy bands like the Raging Honkies, and thinking that he must be combining pedals to get that kind of gain from Fender amps.

That's just an opinion not based on facts....
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dizzy



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber

I don’t sound as good as Scott or Mike but I have worked out some good ways of getting od sounds on Fender amps. These are things I think Landau does as well—

1. Use large dust cap speaker like g12 65 or scumback LD
2. Jan Ray sounds really natural into the amp. The RC is more meant to boost a dirty amp but the jan ray can provide its own nice low gain sound without being far above unity gain. so:
Turn up the bass and treble on the jan ray and turn down the drive. Then you can stack pedals onto the jan ray and the jan ray acts like a full range dirty amp.
Fuzz faces sound great into the jan ray. And the rc boost will sound amazing too.
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Thumberstrummer



Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi SCott.
This reply is only aimed at sharing the tail of the story.
Thanks to your advice, I run some test on staking pedals in front of my Fender Bassman reisue.
Well, the staking exercise did work!
Best matches IMHO are
- RC Booster --> OCD (ver 1.7)
- Voodoo 1 --> Maxxon OD-9 (TS 808).
In both cases (especially with OCD + RC Booster - both have plenty of volume on tap!) is impossible to turn the pedals volume all the way up, unless you aim at being overhelmed with hum and buzzes.
The second combo produces a bit more mids, which is not necessarily bad, even though is the first I like the most.
Perhaps some dual stage distortion pedals (like the NEW Fulltone Plim Soul, and others) might serve the cause as well.
In any case, this is the very first time I can sort a (more than) decent high gain distortion tone out of my Bassman!
Thanks Scott. Your advice is been really helpful

PS
I love the way such combo amp, with its 4 10" speakers, mimics a "mini" 4x12. Now I understand why some bass players have cabs with 4 or more of such speakers. I'd never hook up to whatever amp less than 4, with 4 in place though, you really get a solid sound wall, plenty of low end, and in general a very well balanced tone (...and my back says thanks!). I can now rely on a clean tone, but have plenty of high gain distrotion on tap. I'm also keeping on my board the SD9, as it produces a tone way dirrerent than with the plexi - here its task is to cover the mild distortion territory.
BTW maybe in the future I'll test some different speakers (I'm a bit on the fence with the current Jensen RIs), but for the moment I'll stick with the stock ones, since I'm hquite happy with the result.
Many thanks again Scott!
Fabio
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Thumberstrummer



Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...thanks Dizzy.
Good to know! Jam Ray is never been under my radar, but I know someone who ownes one. I'll give it a try.
Many thanks

Fabio
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Rolly



Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try something like the Fulltone Plimsoul or OCD.

Boost pedals like the RC booster and really any other clean boost will just make the amp louder unless the amp is cranked up loud enough to be compressing and distorting on its own (ie a Fender or other NMV amp on like 6 or higher.) That’s probably a lot louder than most situations allow these days.

A lot of typical overdrives like the TS9, klon, etc. also really need the amp to be working hard in order to shine.

If you use a hard clipping distortion pedal you’ll have more luck with the RC booster, too.

another trick I like is to use a compressor AFTER dirt boxes because you can crank them up and stack them and use the compressor to limit volume spikes and jumps.

I think Landau stacks pedals a lot more frequently than Scott does. He’s also likely playing those fender amps loud enough that they’re compressing and somewhat overdriving and smoothing everything out.
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Thumberstrummer



Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Rolly.
Fully agreed - using a clean boost on a clean amp only makes it louder. I’d say unbearably louder, and no FOH guy would allow it nowadays Wink
Unexpectedly the RC booster into the OCD produce good result, and a creamy “organic” distortion. Being the OCD the last in the gain chain, allows to keep the final volume of both pedals acceptable. As well as some hard clipping pedals like the SD9 seem worth to be used on their own.
On the other hand the classic stack TS9 -> Voodoo1 sounds worse on my Fender than on the Plexi.
When it comes to the Plim Soul, it seems Mike Fuller re-worked some of his flagship pedals during the lockdown, including the PS, and he says these last versions sound much better than the olders.
Being the PS a dual clipping stage pedal, it might be useful in my clean amp rig.
Such pedal is on my radar, and sooner or later I’ll give it a try.
Fabio
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Scott Henderson
The Man


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2121

PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Voodoo 1 and Maxon OD-9 (Tube Screamer) used to be my main pedal combination back when I was recording Tore Down House and Well to the Bone. I used it both ways, Voodoo 1 first and OD-9 first. In those days I was playing a plexi with no master volume.

Now with my modded '71 Marshall and SH-100, I can get enough gain from the amp that I don't need to stack pedals, and the RC Booster has plenty enough gain for solos, plus channel 1 by itself is a nice clean boost. I also use my Bandmaster a lot for recording, but I have to crank it to 8 to get that kind of gain, which would be way too loud in a club.
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dizzy



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott

When you did dog party you just used a tubescreamer right?

Did you add bass in the mix? Your sound doesn’t sound mid rangy at all but every time I record a tubescreamer without a boost pedal in line it sounds nasal.
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Scott Henderson
The Man


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2121

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, just a Tube Screamer (not even a good one) and the Matchless, which is a very scooped sounding amp so I guess that's why it worked. At that time I didn't know much about recording guitar, but I know TJ used a room mic and mixed it with the close mic, and he may have used some EQ as well.

When I hear "Too Many Gittars", the tune where my friends join in and play a blues chorus, I remember how we were all saying it sucks when your engineer sits in and plays better than anyone else! Smile
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Diego



Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew TJ was and awesome guitar player, and a master engineer, but after i heard him singing i really got a depression...man, how much talent in only one person!!

That being said, Scott Dog Party is one of my favorite all time guitar tones, do you remember which Matchleass amp was that?

Also, is that a 57 the close mic?? It really sounds amazing
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Scott Henderson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a Matchless DC30, and both the close mic and room mic were 57's. It's the only mic I ever use!
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